The backstory to this article’s existence is a real lesson in perseverance, but nobody came to read about HOW this interview came about now did they?! Of course not. That being said, I went into this conversation not quite knowing just what to expect – this IS Jack Grisham after all, a man notorious for, as one friend told me, torturing people…Others, however informed me that he was a nice fellow. Happily, it turns out Jack is one helluva guy, and rather humble as well, which is nice to see considering the absolute masterful albums he has created throughout the years with his various bands, most notably legendary O.C. punk heroes/villains (depending on how you view them!) TSOL and later, The Joykiller.
As he explains in his modest, self-effacing manner, “I’ve never really been happy with anything I’ve done. I mean, I’m just not. It’s never good enough as far as I’m concerned ‘cause I look at stuff that I love so much, like I’ll hear other bands and their songs and think, ‘God, that’s so cool.’” This coming from a man who with TSOL created such classics as ‘Weathered Statues’ and 1981’s debut LP ‘Dance with Me’ (THE best American punk album of all-time?…). Many would agree with Jack’s wise 16-year-old daughter who has told him he DOES make music that means a lot to people, yet “I don’t see it that way…‘cause I’m looking at it from me…so I’m always judging myself really hard about what I’m doing or whether I’m happy with it,” he says, concluding, “It always sounds bad.”
This inevitably leads to the surmise that he’s a perfectionist. “Yeah, a perfectionist that can’t do anything right!” Still, through enough coercion, he does reveal some of his work that he is extremely proud of and with which he is happy – “as happy as I get,” he quickly adds with a laugh. Records that make the grade are ‘Three’, The Joykiller’s, third album, Tender Fury’s cleverly titled ‘If Anger Were Soul, I’d Be James Brown’, and TSOL’s latest gem ‘Divided We Stand’. Other material he loves is the Gentleman Jack stuff, which appears at the end of The Joykiller compilation on Epitaph released last year entitled ‘Ready Sexed Go!’.
This last collection of material he mentions had me a bit confused. The record is put out under the moniker The Joykiller, and as such, features plenty of songs from that band’s extraordinary three-album catalogue, but then at the end features eight new songs, which, according to Jack, were supposed to be released under the name The Go, but as that name had already been taken by a band in Seattle, he decided to go with Gentleman Jack Grisham, but “then we just never did that.” Basically, he used The Joykiller compilation as a vehicle to get out that new material. Speaking of The Joykiller, Jack sounds like it really holds a special place in his heart and a hint of sadness surfaces when confiding we shouldn’t be expecting anything new from them under that name. “There’s no band” he tries to pound into my skull. “We just couldn’t afford to do it,” concluding, “It’s really a drag, but that’s the way it is.”
On a somewhat similar note, he won’t be going on any U.S. tours with the rejuvenated TSOL any time soon, despite still releasing incredible records since the band’s reformation in ’99 (see 2001’s ‘Disappear’ and 2003’s ‘Divided We Stand’ both on Nitro), and of course, it makes sense. For one thing, they can’t afford it. More importantly, the men – adults now – have families. Jack confides, “I’d rather be with my kids than go on tour, and the record companies don’t like that. That makes them mad. They want us out there trying to sell records and make money.” Whereas young bands are willing to do anything for the record companies in order to “make it,” Jack doesn’t want to be a “rock star guy,” he never did, reiterating, “I don’t give a fuck.” However, the band does still play around California, so some of you people are lucky.
Yet it really sounds like he and the other original members – guitarist Ron Emory and bassist Mike Roche (drummer Todd Barnes passed away in ‘99) – are in it for the right reasons. When they first reunited back in ’89, Jack makes no bones about it: “It was strictly for money,” whereas in ’99, “it was strictly for fun.”
So just how did Jack view TSOL after he and Todd left the band in the early ‘80s? “I didn’t like it at all. I’ll tell you, it’s not so much the music ‘cause we’ve all done shitty music. It’s like I’ve made a lot of shitty music…[but rather] the attitude of the guys in the band.” He says the band acted in a way counter to their punk beliefs. “It was that whole rock star, hang-out trip and I couldn’t get behind it. I hated it.” Still, despite what he says, you always hear people talk about the infamous “metal TSOL,” but there really is no comparison between that, which ended up not even including any of the founding members of the band, and the “original TSOL.” Their early material up to the unbelievable ‘Beneath the Shadows’ in ‘82 and now the records they’ve put out since re-forming, is untouchable. But I digress…and I promised not to glorify or deify…
Why was ‘Beneath the Shadows’ received poorly in ‘82? After all it is a remarkable, innovative, forward-looking album that is beautifully emotive, full of poignant lyrics, and highlighted by piano flourishes. “A lot of people didn’t ‘get it’ and what made me mad about it was we were trying to do what we had been taught to do by the people that were supposedly punk, which is what makes it so funny,” explains Jack. “They talk about [experimenting], but if you do something out of the mold, they freak out,” adding, “They were no better than the rocker bands we were trying to get rid of. There were people in those rocker bands that were more open-minded than these supposed punk guys.” Appropriately, Jack agrees with me that it’s a good, solid record. “I still like it now…It was a ballsy move, we didn’t know any better.” He brings up a funny point: after he left the band, the other guys in TSOL “actually blamed me for that record,” laughing, “You know, ‘Now that that bastard’s gone, we’re back to business!’”
He’s still creating new music with other projects, including one he just started up with Sean, one of the guitarists from The Joykiller. They’re just “screwing around” at the moment and experimenting. Unable to really compare it to anything else he’s done, he claims it’s “pretty mellow” and kind of in reaction to all the bands around that are basically “just yelling shit,” says Jack. “It’s worthless to me…It’s like a bunch of guys standing around trying to act tough; I don’t like that. I’m really nonviolent nowadays and been like that for some time and I’m against it. I’m against any of that macho, kick-your-ass posturing crap,” the frontman reveals.
Something else Jack’s been involved in recently must also be noted – vying for governor of California in late ’03. About his momentous decision to run for public office, he wanted to actually DO something, rather than be like all these bands singing about anarchy and not accomplishing anything. As he says, “What are we gonna do? Sit back and just wait for something to change, sit back and wait for someone else to take responsibility for what we should be doing? So I just thought to myself I’ll run.” And he used this opportunity as a means to “[stand up and say,] ‘Hey, you know what? Fuck you. You don’t treat your people right, you lie’…I basically used it as a forum to complain, to get my opinion out. That’s what I did, and that’s about as punk as you can get.”
Well, from writing and releasing the kind of music he wants to and not thinking about how others will react to it, and from telling the corrupt politicians and leaders that they’re all liars and taking a stand himself in the political arena, there’s no doubt Jack Grisham is still as bold as he ever was. Sure he’s mellowed over the years, settled down with a family, changed (for the better) how he treats people, and doesn’t need his many aliases (!) anymore, there’s still some fire and passion left, which is definitely a good thing.